Well, apparently I've created quite a stir in the blogspace by not immediately rushing to embrace Ruby-on-Rails, and I'm of two minds as to the larger impact.
For starters, allow me to respond, one last time, to what Justin and Dion and Glenn have written:
- "Pretty clearly, Rails' biggest benefit is Ruby itself. ... Dynamic languages like Ruby provide for eloquence of expression and compile-/run-/deploy-time extension of the core framework abstractions. ... extending classes at runtime ... is powerful, and hard to do in a statically typed language." Actually, Justin, as I think some of the feature set listed for C# 3.0 demonstrates, it's not that hard to do at all in a statically typed language, particularly considering that we don't want to do it at runtime, but at compile-time, so to speak. (I've yet to see a Rails demonstration that changes the type at runtime--it's all been done at edit-time, which in Ruby is the logical equivlent of compile-time.)
- "Lots of people have written about Ruby’s suitability for creating DSLs. When it comes down to it, Ruby’s extensibility and flexibility put it in a class with Lisp, Python and Perl and separate from byte-code-language-X for creating custom syntax. For me personally, extending the base constructs of Ruby to support new, app specific capabilities, makes my job 40 times easier." Frankly, this again smacks of Ruby, not Rails, to me, because I don't consider what Justin is creating in his example to be an example of DSLs. Useful, certainly, powerful, certainly, but not really in keeping with the DSL concept, at least not as it's been discussed up until this point.
- "As I said last time, and as Ted agreed, it is high time for web apps to act like web apps. I want my framework to deliver the HTML over HTTP experience as though that’s what I intended all along to deliver. If it gives me nice ways to bridge the server and client that make it feel a little more tightly integrate (AJaX, anybody?), the more the better. What I DON’T want to forget about is that I’m on the web. Rails strikes, for me, the exact right balance between abstraction and transparency." POWA: good. Rails-as-best-expression-of-POWA: arguable, but not something I want to spend a great deal of time arguing, to be blunt about it.
- "Rails’ convention-over-configuration is a startup-enabling technology. By startup, I don’t mean a new company, I mean a new project. Part of the Agile methodology’s premise is that you get the framework of the app up and runnning as fast as possible (during the first iteration). Then, add on the features. Rails’ convention based approach makes this an absolute lead-pipe cinch. I never question any more how long it will take me to get the front-to-back chassis in place. Rails all but guarantees I’ll be finished in the first iteration, often in the first couple of days. Will I keep that chassis as is for the rest of the project? Of course not. The scaffolding is just that — a shell that allows you to visualize the general shape of the application before you’ve put in all the foundation and walls and pretty siding. As you fill that stuff in, the scaffolding comes down, and you are left with real, working code. Yet all along, you’ve been able to demonstrate to your customer what the final thing might look like. Might be a little fuzzy along the way, but the end product won’t be a total surprise." OK, here we get to a nuts-and-bolts point: Rails as a startup-enabling technology is a good thing. But projects will not always be startup projects. And in particular, this is exactly the path that servlets and JSPs took, and this is exactly when and where the complexity kicked in--people discovered that they needed something more complex than startup-enabling technology as their systems scaled up, not in terms of concurrent users, but in terms of complexity to the rest of their back-end systems. Particularly if you've ever had to rewrite an ASP system in Java servlets--and by the way, had to preserve the deep links scattered all across the Internet--you've come to really appreciate the flexibility in URL-to-code configuration that the servlet environment gives you. Let's NOT throw the baby out with the bathwater when we toss away servlets/JSP in exchange for something that helps us get the easiest 80% of the app done more quickly. Remember the Golden Rule of Software Estimation: "The first 80% of the app will take 80% of the time. The next 20% of the app will also take 80% of the time." It's never the first 80% of the app that I worry about; it's the last 20% that concerns me.
- "Lastly, but certainly not least, Rails gives you speed. I simply have never worked in a web app framework that enabled me to move at such a controlled velocity. I may have moved faster in the past (particularly using generated ASP.NET pages) but I never had the tools built in to ensure I was doing a decent job. Not only is Rails a highly productive environment, but it almost forces you to take a test-and-prove approach to development, if through nothing more than guilt. (Hey, look, you just generated a new controller, and I put all these handy tests down here for you to use! What, you aren’t going to use them? What kind of lame-o are you?!?!)" This is the part I can least speak to, as I've not experienced Rails directly yet, not in any form of "production" capacity, anyway. (I plan to, though--my next book, one which I'll announce soon and will be in Dave's Pragmatic series, will have a Ruby/Rails component to it, I'm certain of it.) So I'll have to defer to Justin's experience here, though I will close with the thought that I wonder if we couldn't have the same kind of speed in Java or .NET if we built the surrounding scaffolding to do the same things that Rails does.
- "I think that Ted will end up putting the Rails and Ruby books back on his shelf, if for no other reason than he’s never thrown away a book in his life. However, I believe that Ted really values technologies that offer something new to developers and their customers. Rails is clearly, for me, one of those technologies, and I think that Ted believes it too, really. He just likes to have blog-offs." Well, I won't disagree with Justin's point that I like to see what smart people have to say on topics that I disagree with, and frankly, don't expect the "blog-offs" to stop anytime soon, as I've learned a lot just from this debate. And yes, Justin's right, I've never yet thrown a book away, so the Rails book will end up back on my shelf eventually. But it's really a larger question of how much time I should spend on the subject, and I think there's enough intriguing elements here (mostly dealing with the fact that it's Ruby) to justify spending more time learning it. But don't expect to see me recommending Rails in a production capacity any time soon--my clients tend to be the large-scale enterprise folks that Justin mentions, and as a result I probably won't be using Rails "in anger" any time soon.
- Glenn said, "What’s Rails about?
- "It’s about Ruby and the things that a scripting language can do that a compiled, statically-typed language can’t." Again, Glenn, I'm concerned with writing off statically-typed languages as being simply "unable" to do some of the things that Ruby is doing--I believe that to make that argument shortchanges the statically-typed language just as much as arguing that the dynamically-typed language "can't perform" does.
- "It’s about confirming some of the earliest thinking about frameworks: that they should be extracted from well-designed applications, rather than being designed on their own." Amen to that! I've watched thousands of "reusable frameworks" built from scratch, without even a project to build them around, and they showed it. (I'll even admit to building a few myself.) There's a great quote I heard someplace in the C++ days--wish I could remember who said it--that says, "We need to make something usable before we can make it reusable". Learn it, love it, live it. And if that is Rails' greatest contribution to the Java space, then count me in as a fan.
- "It’s about demonstrating the fundamental importance of the DRY principle for software design. (Bruce Eckel calls it "the most fundamental concept in computing.")" Well, certainly I applaud the idea of DRY and Once-And-Only-Once as core principles, but let's also not forget the power of the Level of Indirection. Bruce Eckel may disagree, but I find THAT to be the most fundamental concept in computing.
- "Oh … and it’s about bringing the pendulum back away from the layers-upon-layers default approach in Java projects." And, again, hallelujah! Say it loud, say it proud.
- "For some time many frameworks have been going to the JSF extreme, and Rails has come along to give a great balance. Hacking away at JSPs, or PHP files just becomes a mess quickly. We all learned that. Then we started working with simple MVC things which was fine, and it got complicated. Rails is rebalancing things!!!" Sure, but let's not go to the opposite extreme in the rebalancing--there is value in that complexity in the servlet/JSP space: unless you believe that smart people seek to create complexity just for the hell of it, then you have to believe that the complexity that was added to the servlet/JSP space was introduced there for a reason. If, by the way, you choose to believe that the servlet/JSP community added that complexity for no good reason whatsoever, then you and I simply have to agree to disagree on that point. Has the web framework space gotten too complicated? Sure--everybody's trying to put THEIR layer of abstraction on top of servlets/JSP (and JSF quite clearly fits into this category), and that, to me, is a mistake, but again, let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Let's not chuck servlets/JSP just because certain people are trying to impose their abstractions on top of it.
- "Come on dood. You really think that you would want to build a web application in pure Servlets?" Dion, I never said that, nor do I believe that. (Although, quite frankly, I think you canget some distance with pure servlets and some good library support, such as $g(Velocity). Hey, if template files are good enough for Rails...) This isn't a black-or-white discussion--it isn't Rails vs. Pure Servlets vs. JSF. It's a continuum, and Rails fits on an end of the continuum that I find to be too naive and simplistic to fit the needs of the companies that I consult for. Your experience may be different, and if it is, wahoo!
My second concern, however, is the larger issue: I can't really recommend or get my heart behind a technology until I've seen it applied to several full-lifecycle projects (not necessarily my own, but others' are acceptable) so that I have something to examine and see where the strong points and weak points are. I know that Rails grew out of a website, then another and another, for a website design company, and that in of itself gives me a good feeling, but until Rails starts to go beyond the simple webapp-on-a-database scenario, I won't really give it much credit beyond something to compete with a ColdFusion or PHP. So, to all you Rails-heads, check back with me in a year, show me the wide variety of sites built with Rails, and then (maybe) I'll be willing to be convinced otherwise. Until then, well.... happy coding. :-)