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 Wednesday, July 02, 2008
Polyglot Plurality

The Pragmatic Programmer says, "Learn a new language every year". This is great advice, not just because it puts new tools into your mental toolbox that you can pull out on various occasions to get a job done, but also because it opens your mind to new ideas and new concepts that will filter their way into your code even without explicit language support. For example, suppose you've looked at (J/Iron)Ruby or Groovy, and come to like the "internal iterator" approach as a way of simplifying moving across a collection of objects in a uniform way; for political and cultural reasons, though, you can't write code in anything but Java. You're frustrated, because local anonymous functions (also commonly--and, I think, mistakenly--called closures) are not a first-class concept in Java. Then, you later look at Haskell/ML/Scala/F#, which makes heavy use of what Java programmers would call "static methods" to carry out operations, and realize that this could, in fact, be adapted to Java to give you the "internal iteration" concept over the Java Collections:

   1: package com.tedneward.util;
   2:  
   3: import java.util.*;
   4:  
   5: public interface Acceptor
   6: {
   7:   public void each(Object obj);
   8: }
   9:  
  10: public class Collection
  11: {
  12:   public static void each(List list, Acceptor acc)
  13:   {
  14:     for (Object o : list)
  15:       acc.each(o);
  16:   }
  17: }

Where using it would look like this:

   1: import com.tedneward.util.*;
   2:  
   3: List personList = ...;
   4: Collection.each(new Accpetor() {
   5:   public void each(Object person) {
   6:     System.out.println("Found person " + person + ", isn't that nice?");
   7:   }
   8: });

Is it quite as nice or as clean as using it from a language that has first-class support for anonymous local functions? No, but slowly migrating over to this style has a couple of definitive effects, most notably that you will start grooming the rest of your team (who may be reluctant to pick up these new languages) towards the new ideas that will be present in Groovy, and when they finally do see them (as they will, eventually, unless they hide under rocks on a daily basis), they will realize what's going on here that much more quickly, and start adding their voices to the call to start using (J/Iron)Ruby/Groovy for certain things in the codebase you support.

(By the way, this is so much easier to do in C# 2.0, thanks to generics, static classes and anonymous delegates...

   1: namespace TedNeward.Util
   2: {
   3:   public delegate void EachProc<T>(T obj);
   4:   public static class Collection
   5:   {
   6:     public static void each(ArrayList list, EachProc proc)
   7:     {
   8:       foreach (Object o in list)
   9:         proc(o);
  10:     }
  11:   }
  12: }
  13:  
  14: // ...
  15:  
  16: ArrayList personList = ...;
  17: Collection.each(list, delegate(Object person) {
  18:   System.Console.WriteLine("Found " + person + ", isn't that nice?");
  19: });

... though the collection classes in the .NET FCL are nowhere near as nicely designed as those in the Java Collections library, IMHO. C# programmers take note: spend at least a week studying the Java Collections API.)

 

This, then, opens the much harder question of, "Which language?" Without trying to infer any sort of order or importance, here's a list of languages to consider, with URLs where applicable; I invite your own suggestions, by the way, as I'm sure there's a lot of languages I don't know about, and quite frankly, would love to. The "current hotness" is to learn the languages marked in bold, so if you want to be daring and different, try one of those that isn't. (I've provided some links, but honestly it's kind of tiring to put all of them in; just remember that Google is your friend, and you should be OK. :-) )

  • Visual Basic. Yes, as in Visual Basic--if you haven't played with dynamic languages before, try turning "Option Strict Off", write some code, and see how interacting with the .NET FCL suddenly changes into a duck-typed scenario. If you're really curious, have a look at the generated code in Reflector or ILDasm, and notice how the generated code looks a lot like the generated JVM code from other dynamic languages on an execution environment, a la Groovy.
  • Ruby (JRuby, IronRuby):
  • Groovy: Some call this "javac 2.0"; I'm not sure it merits that title, or the assumption of the mantle of "King of the JVM" that would seem to go with that title, but the fact is, Groovy's a useful language.
  • Scala: A "SCAlable LAnguage" for the JVM (and CLR, though that feature has been left to the community to support), incorporating both object-oriented and functional concepts, plus a few new ideas, into a single package. I'm obviously bullish on Scala, given the talks and articles I've done on it.
  • F#: Originally OCaml-on-the-CLR, now F# is starting to take on a personality of its own as Microsoft productizes it. Like Scala and Erlang, F# will be immediately applicable in concurrency scenarios, I think. I'm obviously bullish on F#, given the talks, articles, and book I'm doing on it.
  • Erlang: Functional language with a strong emphasis on parallel processing, scalability, and concurrency.
  • Perl: People will perhaps be surprised I say this, given my public dislike of Perl's syntax, but I think every programmer should learn Perl, and decide for themselves what's right and what's wrong about Perl. Besides, there's clearly no argument that Perl is one of the power tools in every *nix sysadmin's toolbox.
  • Python: Again, given my dislike of Python's significant whitespace, my suggestion to learn it here may surprise some, but Python seems to be stepping into Perl's shoes as the sysadmin language tool of choice, and frankly, lots of people like the significant whitespace, since that's how they format their code anyway.
  • C++: The grandaddy of them all, in some ways; if you've never looked at C++ before, you should, particularly what they're doing with templates in the Boost library. As Scott Meyers once put it, "We're a long way from Stack<T>!"
  • D: Walter Bright's native-compiling garbage-collected successor to C++/Java/C#.
  • Objective-C (part of gcc): Great "other" object-oriented C-based language that never gathered the kind of attention C++ did, yet ended up making its mark on the industry thanks to Steve Jobs' love of the language and its incorporation into the NeXT (and later, Mac OS X) toolchain. Obj-C is a message-passing object language, which has some interesting implications in its own right.
  • Common Lisp (Steel Bank Common Lisp): What happens when you create a language that holds as a core principle that the language should hold no clear delineation between "code" and "data"? Or that the syntactic expression of the language should be accessible from within that langauge? You get Lisp, and if you're not sure what I'm talking about, pick up a Lisp or a Scheme implementation and start experimenting.
  • Scheme (PLT Scheme, SISC): Scheme is one of the earliest dialects of Lisp, and much of the same syntactic flexibility and power of Lisp is in Scheme, as well. While the syntaxes are usually not directly interchangeable, they're close enough that learning one is usually enough.
  • Clojure: Rich Hickey (who also built "dotLisp" for the CLR) has done an amazing job of bringing Lisp to the JVM, including a few new ideas, such as some functional concepts and an implementation of software transactional memory, among other things.
  • ECMAScript (E4X, Rhino, ES4): If you've never looking at JavaScript outside of the browser, you're in for a surprise--as Glenn Vanderburg put it during one of his NFJS talks, "There's a real programming language in there!". I'm particularly fond of E4X, which integrates XML as a native primitive type, and the Rhino implementation fully supports it, which makes it attractive to use as an XML services implementation language.
  • Haskell (Jaskell): One of the original functional languages. Learning this will give a programmer a leg up on the functional concepts that are creeping into other environments. Jaskell is an implementation of Haskell on the JVM, and they've taken the concept of functional further, creating a build system ("Neptune") on top of Jaskell + Ant, to yield a syntax that's... well... more Haskellian... for building Java projects. (Whether it's better/cleaner than Ant is debatable, but it certainly makes clear the functional nature of build scripts.)
  • ML: Another of the original functional languages. Probably don't need to learn this if you learn Haskell, but hey, it can't hurt.
  • Heron: Heron is interesting because it looks to take on more of the modeling aspects of programming directly into the language, such as state transitions, which is definitely a novel idea. I'm eagerly looking forward to future drops. (I'm not so interested in the graphical design mode, or the idea of "executable UML", but I think there's a vein of interesting ideas here that could be mined for other languages that aren't quite so lofty in scope.)
  • HaXe: A functional language that compiles to three different target platforms: its own (Neko), Flash, and/or Javascript (for use in Web DOMs).
  • CAL: A JVM-based statically-typed language from the folks who bring you Crystal Reports.
  • E: An interesting tack on distributed systems and security. Not sure if it's production-ready, but it's definitely an eye-opener to look at.
  • Prolog: A language built around the idea of logic and logical inference. Would love to see this in play as a "rules engine" in a production system.
  • Nemerle: A CLR-based language with functional syntax and semantics, and semantic macros, similar to what we see in Lisp/Scheme.
  • Nice: A JVM-based language that permits multi-dispatch methods, sometimes known as multimethods.
  • OCaml: An object-functional fusion that was the immediate predecessor of F#. The HaXe and MTASC compilers are both built in OCaml, and frankly, it's in a startlingly small number of lines of code, highlighting how appropriate functional languages are for building compilers and interpreters.
  • Smalltalk (Squeak, VisualWorks, Strongtalk): Smalltalk was widely-known as "the O-O language that all the C guys turned to in order to learn how to build object-oriented programs", but very few people at the time understood that Smalltalk was wildly different because of its message-passing and loosely/un-typed semantics. Now we know better (I hope). Have a look.
  • TCL (Jacl): Tool Command Language, a procedural scripting language that has some nice embedding capabilities. I'd be curious to try putting a TCL-based language in the hands of end users to see if it was a good DSL base. The Jacl implementation is built on top of the JVM.
  • Forth: The original (near as I can tell) stack-based language, in which all execution happens on an execution stack, not unlike what we see in the JVM or CLR. Given how much Lisp has made out of the "atoms and lists" concept, I'm curious if Forth's stack-based approach yields a similar payoff.
  • Lua: Dynamically-typed language that lives to be embedded; known for its biggest embedder's popularity: World of Warcraft, along with several other games/game engines. A great demonstration of the power of embedding a language into an engine/environment to allow users to create emergent behavior.
  • Fan: Another language that seeks to incorporate both static and dynamic typing, running on top of both the JVM or the CLR.
  • Factor: I'm curious about Factor because it's another stack-based language, with a lot of inspiration from some of the other languages on this list.
  • Boo: A Python-inspired CLR language that Ayende likes for domain-specific languages.
  • Cobra: A Python-inspired language that seeks to encompass both static and dynamic typing into one language. Fascinating stuff.
  • Slate: A "prototype-based object-oriented programming language based on Self, CLOS, and Smalltalk-80." Apparently on hold due to loss of interest from the founder, last release was 0.3.5 in August of 2005.
  • Joy: Factor's primary inspiration, another stack-based language.
  • Raven: A scripting language that "rips off" from Python, Forth, Perl, and the creator's own head.
  • Onyx: "Onyx is a powerful stack-based, multi-threaded, interpreted, general purpose programming language similar to PostScript. It can be embedded as an extension language similarly to ficl (Forth), guile (scheme), librep (lisp dialect), s-lang, Lua, and Tcl."
  • LOLCode: No, you won't use LOLcode on a project any time soon, but LOLCode has had so many different implementations of it built, it's a great practice tool towards building your own languages, a la DSLs. LOLcode has all the basic components a language would use, so if you can build a parser, AST and execution engine (either interpreter or compiler) for LOLcode, then you've got the basic skills in place to build an external DSL.

There's more, of course, but hopefully there's something in this list to keep you busy for a while. Remember to send me your favorite new-language links, and I'll add them to the list as seems appropriate.

Happy hacking!


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Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:13:10 PM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [1]  | 
The power of Office as a front-end

I recently had the pleasure of meeting Bruce Wilson, a principal with iLink, and we had a pleasant conversation about enterprise applications and trends and such. Last week, in the middle of my trip to Prague and Zurich, he sent me a link to a blog entry he'd written on using Office as a front-end, and it sort of underscored some ideas I've had around Office in general.

The interesting thing is, most of the ideas he talks about here could just as easily be implemented on top of a Java back-end, or a Ruby back-end, as a .NET back-end. Office is a tool that many end-users "get" right away (whether you agree with Microsoft's user interface metaphors or not, or even like the fact that Office is one of the most widely-installed software packages on the planet), and it has a lot of support infrastructure built in. "Mashup" doesn't have to mean YouTube on your website; in fact, I dislike the term "mashup" entirely, since it sounds like something done in the heat of the moment without any planning or thought (which is the antithesis of anything that goes--or should go--into the enterprise). Can we use the term "cardinality" instead? Please?


.NET | Java/J2EE | Windows | XML Services

Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:17:23 PM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [1]  | 
 Wednesday, June 25, 2008
The ultimate thin client

One of the things that I like about the idea of building a DSL is the idea of users being able to express, in fairly user-friendly terms, the actions they want to take. For example, Daniel Spiewak has a great example of a DSL built in Scala using Scala's parser combinators, and the resulting text, while certainly not English, is a very readable form. But in of itself, it seems it's been a hard sell to the general community, who look at GUIs as a far more intuitive way of doing things. (Note: I disagree with this; I don't think GUIs are more intuitive, I think GUIs are more self-explanatory, once you've learned a few basic principles, like moving the mouse, clicking the button, and recognizing which elements are clickable and which aren't.)

I think I've finally figured out where an English- (or other human spoken language) driven DSL can be far more powerful and intuitive than a GUI.

Voice. Or, specifically the world of telecommunication devices as a user interface device. Not as "putting-a-GUI-on-a-phone"; I think this is a red herring and ultimately unproductive line of research, iPhones notwithstanding. I mean, literally, talking to the computer.

Imagine a field repair agent, coming off of a repair call, calling back to the office to say the repair was done: "Ticket number 451123, status complete, note Mrs Johnson really needs to stop washing her clothes in the dishwasher." Hanging up, he moves on to the next ticket in the list.

Meanwhile, on the other end, voice-analysis software has done the basic job of transforming words into a line of text, which is fed to the DSL for processing.

Or, the field agent texts the message to a company account, which again passes it directly to the DSL for further processing.

I am firmly convinced that this style of user interface--one we use every day--is the way that mobile devices should interact with enterprise systems. Forget trying to do complex GUIs on a device, forget even trying to simplify down the complex GUI into a simple GUI--just use your voice and a well-understood shared protocol (the DSL itself).

It's the ultimate thin client.




Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:48:19 AM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [1]  | 
 Tuesday, June 24, 2008
Twittering

Freshly Twittering

Username is tedneward

Come follow my thoughts




Tuesday, June 24, 2008 7:46:13 PM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [0]  | 
Let the Great Language Wars commence....

As Amanda notes, I'm riding with 46 other folks (and lots of beer) on a bus from Michigan to devLink in Tennessee, as part of sponsoring the show. (I think she got my language preferences just a teensy bit mixed up, though.)

Which brings up a related point, actually: Amanda (of "the great F# T-shirt" fame from TechEd this year) and I are teaming up to do F# In A Nutshell for O'Reilly. The goal is to have a Rough Cut ready (just the language parts) by the time F# goes CTP this summer or fall, so we're on an accelerated schedule. If you don't see much from me via the blog for a while, now you know why. :-) Once that's done, I'm going dark on a Scala book to follow--details to follow when that contract is nailed down.

Meanwhile.... As she suggests, the bus will likely be filled with lots of lively debate. The nice thing about having a technical debate with drunk geeks on a bus traveling down the highway at speed is that it's actually pretty easy to win the debate, if you really want to:

"You are such an idiot! Object-relashunal mappers are just... *burp* so cool! Why can't you see that?"

"Idiot, am I? I demand satisfaction! Step outside, sir!"

"Fine, you--" WHOOSH ... THUMP-THUMP....

"Next?"

I'm looking forward to this. :-)

Editor's note: (Contact Amanda if you're interested in participating.)


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Tuesday, June 24, 2008 9:56:39 AM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [0]  | 
 Tuesday, June 03, 2008
Gotta love virtualization

From the "This is a First" Department....

While sitting in the Northwest WorldClubs lounge on my way to TechEd2008, I discovered that Sun is discontinuing their Sun Developer Express program (which I find a bummer--I think they should have done the opposite, in fact, and ramped it up even further, creating a preconfigured/prestocked image with all the open-source tools they do, like OpenJDK and Postgres, ready to build/hack inside it) in favor of their OpenSolaris initiative. Officially, SXDE "goes away" in July, and the download links will automatically forward over to OpenSolaris.org.

OK, fine. Go visit that site.

Ugh, bummer: no prebuilt VMWare images anywhere on the site. That, to me, was the golden apogee of the SXDE program, because it meant that with a single download (granted, of 2GB in size) I could have a nearly-complete Java development environment up and running with almost no work on my part. Now I'm going to have to build an image of my own, and put all the tools (Sun Studio, NetBeans, various JDK images, whatever's not part of the OpenSolaris install) into a base image, and possibly do this over and over again as they release new OpenSolaris releases. Crud.

Whatever.

I download the ISO from the OpenSolaris site (kudos to Northwest for fat pipes in their lounge!), and it finishes just as it's time to walk (jog/brisk-walk might be more appropriate--I was cutting a tad bit close) to the gate. I hop on the flight, take my seat. Turns out, we have about ten or fifteen minutes before we're off the ground, so I pop open the MacBook Pro, flip over to VMWare Fusion, create a new VM, and being the operating system install. I just finish with some of the basics when it's time to go, so I close the lid, and once we hit 10,000 feet, I pop it back open again and let the thing whir away at the drive.

And that's when it hits me.

I'm doing an operating system install. On my laptop. In a virtual machine image. Using an ISO I downloaded while at the airport. And I'm writing this blog post as I do it.

I find that incredibly cool.

I don't know about you, but forget mashups and Web 2.0, I think virtualization stands out as the most important technical innovation of the decade.




Tuesday, June 03, 2008 10:56:53 AM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [3]  | 
 Sunday, June 01, 2008
Best Java Resources: A Call

I've been asked to put together a list of the "best" Java resources that every up-and-coming Java developer should have, and I'd like this list to be as comprehensive as possible and, more importantly, reflect more than just my own opinion. So, either through comments or through email, let me know what you think the best Java resources are in the following categories:

  • Websites and developer Web portals
  • Weblogs/RSS feeds. (Not all have to be hand-authored blogs--if you find an RSS feed for news on java.net projects, for example, that would count as well.)
  • Java packages and/or libaries. (Either those within Java Standard Edition--a la Reflection or the Scripting API--or from Enterprise Edition--a la JMS--or even third-party packages, a la Spring.)
  • Conferences, even including those that I don't speak at. ;-)
  • Books.
  • Tools. (IDEs, build tools, static analysis tools, either commercial or open source.)
  • Future trends you think bear watching.

There is, of course, no prize to be won here, and I'd please ask the vendors (commercial or open source) who watch my blog to avoid outright advertisements in comments (though you are free to rattle off the various advantages of your product in an email to me), in order to avoid turning this weblog into a gigantic row of billboards along the freeway. I am interested in peoples' opinions, however, and more importantly, why you think X should be on that list, or even why Y shouldn't. Keep it civil, though, please--I'll delete any comments that get too vindictive or offensive. (That doesn't mean that you have to agree with me--just avoid calling anybody names. Basic 'Netiquette.)

Oh, and if you want to be mentioned in the article (which will be published on an international developer site), please indicate how you'd like to be accredited. Or not. Whatever you prefer.


Java/J2EE | Languages | Mac OS | Reading | Review | XML Services

Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:18:03 PM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [9]  | 
 Sunday, May 25, 2008
On Blogging, Technical, Personal and Intimate

Sometimes people ask me why I don't put more "personal" details in my blogs--those who know me know that I'm generally pretty outspoken on a number of topics ranging far beyond that of simple technology. While sometimes those opinions do manage to leak their way here, for the most part, I try to avoid the taboo topics (politics/sex/religion, among others) here in an effort to keep things technically focused. Or, at least, as technically focused as I can, anyway.

But there've been some other reasons I've avoided the public spotlight on my non-technical details, too.

This essay from the New York Times (which may require registration, I'm not sure) captures, in some ways, the things that anyone who blogs should consciously consider before blogging: when you blog, you are putting yourself out into the public eye in a way that we as a society have never had before. In prior generations, it was always possible to "hide" from the world around us by simply not taking the paths that lead to public exposure--no photos, no quotations in the newspaper, and so on. Now, thanks to Google, anybody can find you with a few keystrokes.

In some ways, it's funny--the Internet creates a layer of anonymity, and yet, takes it away at the same time. (There has to be a sociology or psychology master's thesis in there, waiting to be researched and written. Email me if you know of one?)

Ah, right. The point. Must get back to the point.

As you read peoples' blogs and consider commenting on what you've read, I implore you, remember that on the other end of that blog is a real person, with feelings and concerns and yes, in most cases, that same feeling of inadequacy that plagues us all. What you say in your comments can and will, no matter how slight, either raise them up, or else wound them. Sometimes, if you're particularly vitriolic about it, you can even induce that "blogging burnout" Emily mentions in her essay.

And, in case you were wondering: Yep, that goes for me, too. You, dear reader, can make me feel like shit, if you put your mind to it strongly enough.

That doesn't mean I don't want comments or am suddenly afraid of being rejected online--far from it. I post here the thoughts and ideas that yes, I believe in, but also because I want to see if others believe in them. In the event others don't, I want to hear their criticism and hear their logic as they find the holes in the argument. Sometimes I even agree with the contrary opinion, or find merit in going back to revisit my thinking on the subject--case in point, right now I'm going back to look at Erlang more deeply to see if Steve is right. (Thus far, cruising through some Erlang code, looking at Erlang's behavior in a debugger, and walking my way through various parts of the BEAM engine, I still think Erlang's fabled support for robustness and correctness--none of which I disagreed with, by the way--comes mostly from the language, not the execution engine, for whatever that's worth. And apparently I'm not the only one. But that's neither here nor there--Steve thinks he's right, and I doubt any words of mine would change his opinion on that, judging from the tone of his posts on the matter. *shrug* Fortunately, I'm far more concerned with correcting my own understanding in the event of incorrectness than I am anybody else's. :-) )

In any event, to those of you who are curious as to the more personal details, I'm sorry, but they're not going to show up here any time soon. If you're that curious, find me at a conference, introduce yourself, buy me a glass of red wine (Zinfandel's always good) or Scotch, double neat (Macallan 18, or maybe a 25 if you're asking really personal stuff), and let's settle into some comfy chairs and talk.

That's always a far more enjoyable experience than typing at the keyboard.


Conferences | Reading

Sunday, May 25, 2008 2:40:18 AM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [1]  | 
 Thursday, May 22, 2008
Uber-feed

I've gotten a couple of emails about this, and it's finally crossed the threshold to deserve a blog post. If you want to subscribe to the complete feed (not restricted by category), the URL you want is http://blogs.tedneward.com/SyndicationService.asmx/GetRss. It was only after the most recent email that I realized there's no link for it on the blog template; sorry about that, all.




Thursday, May 22, 2008 6:32:53 PM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [0]  | 
 Monday, May 19, 2008
Life at Microsoft

For those of you who aren't from that side of the world, you might find it... inspirational... to see what life at Microsoft is really like. (And I can vouch for some of these myself, having spent some time inside those buildings....)




Monday, May 19, 2008 3:33:55 AM (Pacific Daylight Time, UTC-07:00)
Comments [4]  | 
 Sunday, May 18, 2008
Guide you, the Force should

Steve Yegge posted the transcript from a talk on dynamic languages that he gave at Stanford.

Cedric Beust posted a response to Steve's talk, espousing statically-typed languages.

Numerous comments and flamewars erupted, not to mention a Star Wars analogy (which always makes things more fun).

This is my feeble attempt to play galactic peacemaker. Or at least galactic color commentary and play-by-play. I have no doubts about its efficacy, and that it will only fan the flames, for that's how these things work. Still, I feel a certain perverse pleasure in pretending, so....

Enjoy the carnage that results.


First of all, let me be very honest: I like Steve's talk. I think he does a pretty good job of representing the negatives and positives of dynamic languages, though there are obviously places where I'm going to disagree:

  • "Because we all know that C++ has some very serious problems, that organizations, you know, put hundreds of staff years into fixing. Portability across compiler upgrades, across platforms, I mean the list goes on and on and on. C++ is like an evolutionary sort of dead-end. But, you know, it's fast, right?" Funny, I doubt Bjarne Stroustrup or Herb Sutter would agree with the "evolutionary dead-end" statement, but they're biased, so let's put that aside for a moment. Have organizations put hundreds of staff years into fixing the problems of C++? Possibly--it would be good to know what Steve considers the "very serious problems" of C++, because that list he does give (compiler/platform/language upgrades and portability across platforms) seems problematic regardless of the langauge or platform you choose--Lord knows we saw that with Java, and Lord knows we see it with ECMAScript in the browser, too. The larger question should be, can, and does, the language evolve? Clearly, based on the work in the Boost libraries and the C++0X standards work, the answer is yes, every bit as much as Java or C#/.NET is, and arguably much more so than what we're seeing in some of the dynamic languages. C++ is getting a standardized memory model, which will make a portable threading package possible, as well as lambda expressions, which is a far cry from the language that I grew up with. That seems evolutionary to me. What's more, Bjarne has said, point-blank, that he prefers taking a slow approach to adopting new features or ideas, so that it can be "done right", and I think that's every bit a fair position to take, regardless of whether I agree with it or not. (I'd probably wish for a faster adoption curve, but that's me.) Oh, and if you're thinking that C++'s problems stem from its memory management approach, you've never written C++ with a garbage collector library.
  • "And so you ask them, why not use, like, D? Or Objective-C. And they say, "well, what if there's a garbage collection pause?" " Ah, yes, the "we fear garbage collection" argument. I would hope that Java and C#/.NET have put that particular debate to rest by now, but in the event that said dragon's not yet slain, let's do so now: GC does soak up some cycles, but for the most part, for most applications, the cost is lost in the noise of everything else. As with all things performance related, however, profile.
  • "And so, you know, their whole argument is based on these fallacious, you know, sort of almost pseudo-religious... and often it's the case that they're actually based on things that used to be true, but they're not really true anymore, and we're gonna get to some of the interesting ones here." Steve, almost all of these discussions are pseudo-religious in nature. For some reason, programmers like to identify themselves in terms of the language they use, and that just sets up the religious nature of the debate from the get-go.
  • "You know how there's Moore's Law, and there are all these conjectures in our industry that involve, you know, how things work. And one of them is that languages get replaced every ten years. ... Because that's what was happening up until like 1995. But the barriers to adoption are really high." I can't tell from the transcript of Steve's talk if this is his opinion, or that this is a conjecture/belief of the industry; in either case, I thoroughly disagree with this sentiment--the barriers to entry to create your own language have never been lower than today, and various elements of research work and available projects just keep making it easier and easier to do, particularly if you target one of the available execution engines. Now, granted, if you want your language to look different from the other languages out there, or if you want to do some seriously cool stuff, yes, there's a fair amount of work you still have to do... but that's always going to be the case. As we find ways to make it easier to build what's "cool" today, the definition of what's "cool" rises in result. (Nowhere is this more clear than in the game industry, for example.) Moore's Law begets Ballmer's Corollary: User expectations double every eighteen months, requiring us to use up all that power trying to meet those expectations with fancier ways of doing things.
  • It's a section that's too long to quote directly here, but Steve goes on to talk about how programmers aren't using these alternative languages, and that if you even suggest trying to use D or Scala or [fill in the blank], you're going to get "lynched for trying to use a language that the other engineers don't know. ... And [my intern] is, like, "well I understand the argument" and I'm like "No, no, no! You've never been in a company where there's an engineer with a Computer Science degree and ten years of experience, an architect, who's in your face screaming at you, with spittle flying on you, because you suggested using, you know... D. Or Haskell. Or Lisp, or Erlang, or take your pick." " Steve, with all due respect to your experience, I know plenty of engineers and companies who are using some of these "alternative" languages, and they're having some good success. But frankly, if you work in a company where an architect is "in your face screaming at you, with spittle flying on you", frankly, it's time to move on, because that company is never going to try anything new. Period. I don't care if we're talking about languages, Spring, agile approaches, or trying a new place for lunch today. Companies get into a rut just as much as individuals do, and if the company doesn't challenge that rut every so often, they're going to get bypassed. Period, end of story. That doesn't mean trying every new thing under the sun on your next "mission-critical" project, but for God's sake, Mr. CTO, do you really want to wait until your competition has bypassed you before adopting something new? There's a lot of project work that goes on that has room for some experimentation and experience-gathering before utilizing something on the next big project.
  • "I made the famously, horribly, career-shatteringly bad mistake of trying to use Ruby at Google, for this project. ... And I became, very quickly, I mean almost overnight, the Most Hated Person At Google. And, uh, and I'd have arguments with people about it, and they'd be like Nooooooo, WHAT IF... And ultimately, you know, ultimately they actually convinced me that they were right, in the sense that there actually were a few things. There were some taxes that I was imposing on the systems people, where they were gonna have to have some maintenance issues that they wouldn't have [otherwise had]. Those reasons I thought were good ones." Recognizing the cost of deploying a new platform into the IT sphere is a huge deal that programmers frequently try to ignore in their zeal to adopt something new, and as a result, IT departments frequently swing the other way, resisting all change until it becomes inevitable. This is where running on top of one of the existing execution environments (the JVM or the CLR in particular) becomes so powerful--the actual deployment platform doesn't change, and the IT guys remain more or less disconnected from the whole scenario. This is the principal advantage JRuby and IronPython and Jython and IronRuby will have over their native-interpreted counterparts. As for maintenance issues, aside from the "somebody's gonna have to learn this language" tax (which is a real tax but far less costly, I believe, than most people think it to be), I'm not sure what issues would crop up--the IT guys don't usually change your Java or C# or Visua